And just why are we arguing about the race of various mythical and/or dead people? Are we really that race obsessed?
And even if she was kidding, did Megyn Kelly really think that kids would be traumatized if someone told them that Santa Claus is not white? Things are even worse than I thought.
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19 Comments
I’m Dreaming of a White Christmas too !
I think this is not an issue for anyone but the media. It’s a media war about the holidays and they seem to be the only ones who are upset.
I’ve gotten to look forward to this time of year just to see where Papa Bill and the rest of the Faux News mouthpieces with land on the war on christmas (not xmas) thing. Santa is white – well that’s interesting. Didn’t the folklore of Santa originate in northern Europe? Dutch, I believe. Yeah, the dude’s origins are anglo. The bigger thing is – so what? Just as one of the constants of change is change, one of the constants of tradition is change, as well. Faux and friends need to get over it.
As to the white Christmas thing – I’d settle for any precipitation. Third year of drought here and no end in sight.
Actually, Santa is based on Saint Nicholas, who was Greek but lived in what is now Turkey. He was likely fairly dark skinned. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
The (above) City by derf is really kind of juvenile, dontcha think? PatriotSgt’s right, the media are always trying to win points with viewers on issues they may care about, but they make many presumptions.
As for the war on Christmas, you may be too young to remember when 91 percent of the U.S. was white European. Rightly or wrongly, virtually all but a small fraction of citizens gave this any thought, but Christmas always had a place on the Courthouse lawn until the ACLU began it’s long march through the institutions. If there was no war on Christmas, every time the ACLU was able to remove a manger scene from public property, they had won a battle in the war on … what, exactly? Every time a large corporation succeeded in getting all of their employees to say “happy holidays” instead of “merry you know what” it was ground gained in the fight against … what, exactly?
I think you’re whistling past the graveyard on this war on Christmas thing, hoping to do your part in convincing vast numbers of Americans that their perceptions were wrong, the whole thing’s overblown and they never really had very good instincts to begin with. It’s a huge task.
Speaking of “Are we really that race obsessed?” What does remembering “when 91 percent of the U.S. was white European” have to do with this imagined war on Christmas? Just a tad race obsessed maybe. Last I checked, many black people celebrate Christmas.
I’m 62 and grew up in the Bible Belt. Season’s Greetings and Happy Holidays were perfectly acceptable greetings when I was a child.
I wonder if the wheel has finally turned and instead of the media being beholden to politicians the opposite has become true, and politicians have to take firm politicised stances on everything since the media will inevitably cast them in a certain light on every subject
David Freeman, “91 percent of the U.S. was white European” was an attempt to give historical perspective to this. The perception that there is a war on Christmas has an origin someplace, and having lived through changing times, I believe the systematic removal of Christmas stuff from public places through the use of the Courts created that perception.
You, David, are obsessing. Lighten up.
If you want an accurate “historical perspective” rather than hysterical perspective, US census data puts the highest % white census year to be 1950 tied with 1940 at 89.6. That’s close to 91 but does not exclude white Hispanics as your white European would do.
Even so, how does that lend historical perspective? Seems irrelevant to me. I tried to give some historical perspective by pointing out “seasons greetings and happy holidays” have been around all my 62 years.
I’m pretty lightened up already because I smile and say thank you and show appreciation for any salutation.
Touche, IK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_claus
Fodderwing, you ask “If there was no war on Christmas, every time the ACLU was able to remove a manger scene from public property, they had won a battle in the war on … what, exactly?” How about the war on the first amendment (specifically the establishment clause, which the ACLU was protecting)? Does the US constitution mean anything to you?
And I think you are misinformed when you claim that the ACLU’s goal was to remove manger scenes from public property. I still see plenty of manger scenes on public property, and also *Christmas* trees, Santa Claus, and other Christmas symbols. The ACLU’s goal was twofold: first that religious displays not be funded in any way by taxpayer money (no problem, since there are plenty of non-governmental organizations that are happy to fund them), and also to make sure that any religion — not just Christianity — had the same right to use public property for religious displays. These two things seem completely fair to me. Are you proposing that taxpayer money be used for religious displays and that non-christians be banned from the same rights?
You also ask “Every time a large corporation succeeded in getting all of their employees to say ‘happy holidays’ instead of ‘merry you know what’ it was ground gained in the fight against … what, exactly?” That was no fight at all, that was corporations simply trying to sell more products to people who practiced religions other than Christianity. Corporations are not subject to the first amendment (only government is), so they are free to say whatever they please. If that infringes your religion, then your religion needs help. Nobody is stopping you from saying almost anything you want.
And I too am confused about what the percentage of whites in the US population has to do with Christmas. Maybe the percentage of people in the US who believe in the tenants of Christianity would be a relevant statistic, but the percentage of whites provides no historical perspective I can think of in the least. At best this is a racist freudian slip.
You point out “The perception that there is a war on Christmas has an origin someplace”. Yes, and the perception that religious conservatives are whining victims who defend their Christian religious rights while completely ignoring the rights of others to practice their own religion (like in Tennessee, which prohibited the construction of a mosque, and where people cheered when another mosque burned to the ground). I think there is plenty of evidence that we have a war in this country on the right for people to practice their religion of choice without being harassed. As for your “War on Christmas”, if you claim that every time someone says “Happy Holidays”, that attacks Christmas and offends you, you will get no sympathy from me.
If you are trying to provide historical perspective, you should mention that Christmas wasn’t really celebrated in the American colonies at all and was not even a recognized holiday. In fact, in Boston celebrating Christmas was illegal, and the very first session of Congress after Independence was held on Christmas day in 1789. Christmas did not become a federal holiday until a century later. Why? Because the Puritans were against the celebration of Christmas. Yes, this means that the only real “War on Christmas” the US has ever seen was fought by Christians (because they thought that it was a Pagan holiday, which it is).
Cheese, Louise. David, Iron K., I said white Europeans. Christmas came to North America with them. Indeed, Puritans did not celebrate Christmas, but by the 20th century there just weren’t many of them around any more. Descendants of white Europeans were most of the U.S. populace through the 20th century. By the 1960s the hugely commercial, Americanized version of Christmas saturated the culture, and when the Courts began to protect other cultural viewpoints, may I add constitutionally, the culture at large, that is, the vastly white and European culture, perceived it as a war on Christmas.
Two questions. Why is the relevance of the 91 percent demographic a mystery, and why is a historical note a “racist freudian slip” rather than simply musing on why things are the way they are? I think it is descendants of white Euro folk who seem to be doing most of the complaining, hence the relevance of the comments on demographics in relation to the persistence of a belief.
It is a difficult task to change what people believe, but it can be done. It is far more challenging to change the way they feel. I worked for a Fortune 500 corporation in the 1980s and was among 3000 employees who were told not to say Merry Christmas to customers and fellow employees but to choose a generic salutation, there would be a holiday party, not a Christmas party, etc etc. I understood their goals and I don’t remember that I was bothered by it, but it made many people feel a certain way. I do remember that some officers in the company, people of minority religious peruasions, thought it was damn silly. One can tell people how to behave and be within their rights to do so, but who has the right to tell people how to feel? All I endeavored to say in the above comments is “this is what you’re up against, good luck.” Sheesh.
The bottom line (IMO) is this…
the majority is becoming the minority & they are not too happy about it.
Hey “Just Me” and you’d have to wonder why they are not happy, I mean it’s not as though minorities have a hard do they ……..
Exactly Austin!
I’d like to believe that those old white men now wish that they had treated minority folks better all those years, but I don’t think think they will ever realize the treachery of their actions. Now that the shoe is (or even ‘could be’) on the other foot, they will scream “I’m being persecuted” from the loudest “news” channel.
The “War on Christmas” is largely a media construct, IMO. I’d be really surprised to see any mention of it in news accounts prior to the establishment of FOX news or even CBN, if those guys are even still around. One thing you gotta admire about the pagans, they didn’t get all upset (that we know about)when the Christians adopted all their celebratory traditions as their own. Hey, as long as they byob, the more the merrier.
Happy solstice everybody. Daylight photo-period is getting longer and that’s a birth worth celebrating.
Just Me, old white men will not scream “I’m being persecuted.” They are from the take it on the chin school. It’s a man thing.
There are all types of men.
Are you saying that Bill O’Reilly & his cronies at Fox are ‘take it on the chin’ kinda guys? How about Hannity.. what is he taking on his chin?
oui je crois que Santa est base sur saint Nicolas qui était grec