[this story is from The Onion, but it hardly seems satirical.]
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
ROSEBURG, OR—In the hours following a violent rampage in southwestern Oregon in which a lone attacker killed nine individuals and seriously injured seven others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Thursday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said Ohio resident Lindsay Bennett, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what he really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past six years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”
28 Comments
My son fell apart in January of 2011. He would not allow me to be involved because I’m a nurse, he thought I would fill him with psychobabble. My biggest concern was getting that gun out of the house. I was able to call his wife on her cell phone. I assume she followed through.
This boy had so many guns in that apartment that it would be hard for his nurse mother to miss them. I feel that she is equally culpable.
I just read about a preacher in Bangladesh who escaped a knife attack in his house. Somehow knife attacks are easier to escape in a large group.
What’s more interesting is that they’ve published that exact story, almost word for word, twice before for other shootings. As if to say, nothing ever changes.
Yup. It is deja vu all over again.
It’s beyond bizarre and even worse when you realize the mass murders that occur with regularity now are only the tip of the iceberg compared to the inner city turf wars and domestic incidents. It’s like 9/11 casualty levels every month and it mostly flies under the radar. Predictably, of course, the NRA crowd are only doubling down on their brand of insanity, arguing that this latest incident, among others, happen only in gun-free zones. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
It’s become a never ending source of gallows humor for the satirical pundits, as seen above and here, for example.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/americans-opposed-to-being-shot-seek-representation-in-washington?intcid=mod-latest
It’s all about Freedom, doncha know?
What the proponents of gun control need to do is drop the words gun control. That will not work. Change it to something like smart solutions to reduce gun violence.
In the cities with the strictest gun control, like my Baltimore, traditional “control” measures have failed, utterly. The problem is how do we keep guns out of the hands of those not allowed to have them. Not, how do we make it harder for law abiding citizens. In my state we have mandatory background checks at the state level for all “small arms” and additional federal level check for high capacity guns. The whole process takes weeks to get the approval.
Problem is if you have mental health issues, there is a self reporting requirement. So as in the case of the PHD student at our state university, who applied for and received (after waiting about a month) permission from the state and federal levels to purchase semi automatic hand guns and rifles. He then when to the school and gunned down several of his room mates before taking his own life.
We need IMO to adjust the HIPPA laws to make it mandatory for mental health providers, or doctors to register a patient in NCIC with a non-criminal code that precludes them from purchasing weapons or ammo, until that provider removes the code.
The other problem is in my city we have hundreds of gun murders, committed by criminals who aren’t legally allowed to possess guns and certainly can’t buy them. That happens across the country and by far is the vastly larger number of deaths by firearm. Comparatively, the mass shootings are, not to seem unsympathetic to the families of victims, miniscule compared to the 1000’s of deaths by illegal firearms annually.
If gun control advocates actually wanted to start a real conversation, perhaps they should start with solving the obvious larger problem. Illegal Guns. Sticker laws in my city have no effect, the murder rates and shootings with guns are up, in Chicago another place where rates are up, it doesn’t work. In my city in the last 6 months more people have been gunned down by illegal firearms then all the mass shootings in the past 5 years combined.
I’m just sick and tired of the same tired arguments and old ideas that don’t work. Come up with something that might actually work or shut up.
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/crime/2015/10/05/neighbors-5th-grade-boy-killed-8-year-old-girl-over-puppy/73364516/
The above link is to a child killing a child over a puppy, that took place this weekend. The madness is becoming so commonplace that we are becoming numb to it. Helpless, maybe or just paralyzed by the insanity of it all?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-a-new-way-to-tackle-gun-deaths.html
Here’s a really good article about this from the NY Times, which largely agrees with PatriotSgt.
Patriot, where do you think “illegal” guns come from? The supply of illegal guns is legal guns.
We don’t hold anyone responsible – not gun manufacturers, not dealers, not gun owners. What’s the penalty for having a gun stolen and used in a crime, for example? There is none. Gun ownership is a free ride. You get the benefits, other people take the risks.
Max, If I kill you, drag your dead body to your fingerprint locked gun cabinet and, open it using your lifeless body, take your guns and then commit a new crime using your weapons.
So I guess your advocating that your grieving family be charged and locked up, and that I close down your uncle’s store where you bought the guns.
Makes sense, but no it really doesn’t.
How about we attack the criminals who killed you and stole your guns, instead of you who didn’t ask to be robbed. How about a mandatory 1st offense of 25 years for possession of an illegal or unregistered firearm. 2nd offense life in prison. Naw, that won’t work people would probably say (at least in my state), that it unfairly targets minorities, like crack cocaine.
Try something new Max, no really think outside the box.
PAT – if you think prisons are overcrowded now, imagine the population explosion when guys start getting locked up for unregistered firearms! And good luck even finding them all.
Also, can you please finish your thought from the first (incomplete) sentence of your previous comment? “If I kill you…” then what? Regardless, that’s one creative criminal! That ever really happen?
Anyway, my point is, we know that any common sense gun safety or regulatory measures proposed are invariably met with fierce, uncompromising resistance from the gun lobby (with the usual platitudes around the slippery slope argument) and who have many in the GOP (and some Democrats) on retainer and at their beckon call. And that is ground zero, imo. Until we stop rewarding politicians with reelection who cow to the NRA, nothing will change.
We can think outside the box all we want but we still have to work within the system. As the Dali Lama might say, “Change must come from within.”
I’m not an extremist, I’d just like gun owners to accept some responsibility. If they aren’t willing to lift a finger to prevent gun violence, then guns *should* be banned.
I agree Max. If a bartender serves someone too many drinks, that bartender is responsible. If you have guns, it should be on you to protect them and keep them out of the hands of others.
I also think a lot of our “everyday” gun violence is because of the fact that so many young black men are put in prison for drug related arrests, then released and unable to find jobs because they’ve been in prison. Legalize some drugs, decriminalize some drugs, and a lot of this might not happen.
I’m absolutely exhausted by the “don’t make it harder for law abiding citizens” argument. It’s absolute nonsense. We are having this issue because it’s far too easy for criminals to appear to be law abiding citizens when acquiring guns or for actual law abiding citizens to be too careless in their ownership of fire arms. Cases in point being lackluster tracking of multiple weapon purchases, zero expectation of actual firearm handling knowledge, and very little responsibility for “accidents” or reporting lost or stolen weapons/ammo. We need to actually be able to prove to a reasonable extent that a person who has a gun (or increasingly, many guns) is both responsible and law abiding before handing them such efficient weapons.
I’m really, terribly sorry if it takes law abiding gun owners longer to fill out the paperwork or wait for the background check or have to prove that they know what they’re doing or that they safely store your weapon before they can add to their collections. I’m sick of seeing other law abiding (since this seems to be the buzzword) citizens gunned down where they live, study, or work with shocking-yet-not-shocking-at-all regularity just because gun owners fear for their damned convenience and time. I hate going to the DMV and dealing with car insurance but I’m very glad that there are at least a few steps between some maniacs and the road.
The saddest fact is that we’ve reached such a saturation point of legal-turned-illegal weapons in our country that even if we pass good, common sense gun laws, there will still be plenty of shootings. People will say, as they say about Chicago and Baltimore, “look! strict gun laws and still violence!” without bothering to think that the weapons in high-violence cities probably don’t come from those cities, but originate somewhere that is nice and convenient for weapon purchasers.
The best is yet to come, because while we’re all busy trying to figure out how to cope with all the guns out there already, get ready for the wave of 3D-printed guns, coming to a theater or school near you. They’re not all that reliable or durable…yet, but good luck trying to track all that action in future.
Be the first on your block to mount your printed Uzi onto your very own personal (printed?) drone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI–wFfipvA) for an added dimension of untraceable carnage from above!
The Second Amendment thus secured, the future looks bright. For mercenaries, hit men and other wackos.
“the fact that so many young black men are put in prison for drug related arrests”
Seriously Wildwood. So the government has caused gun violence.
Thatguy-
“We need to actually be able to prove to a reasonable extent that a person who has a gun (or increasingly, many guns) is both responsible and law abiding before handing them such efficient weapons.”
and how exactly would your “prove” that. AND
“terribly sorry if it takes law abiding gun owners longer to fill out the paperwork or wait for the background check or have to prove that they know what they’re doing”
In my state it takes weeks to wait for the “ok” from both the state and Fed. And as part of the application process they must show completion of a state approved gun safety course.
Yet still more people were killed in Baltimore in the last 6 months then all the mass shootings in th last 5 years. — “How’s that workin for ya”
Adam Lanza’s mother had her weapons locked up and she had the key, at least until her son murdered he, stole the key and went on a rampage.
So you see ThatGuy, none of your “proposals” work in real life. It’s been tried and failed. We need something different. Keep thinking.
PatriotSgt, are you seriously claiming that basically EVERY gun currently at large in the USA did not begin life by being purchased legally?
Yes, criminals have guns. Where did they come from?
Other people have made suggestions, and you shoot them down. Pun intended.
Assuming we can all agree that there is a problem, what, then, is YOUR solution?
REDJON -I listed several earlier in the post.
1st. Mandatory 25 yr sentence for 1st offense of possession of an illegal or unregistered firearm. Life for a 2nd offense (if they live to make that poor choice)
2nd. Require medical professionals to annotate a “non-criminal” code, that prevents buying a firearm, into NCIC (the database law enforcement uses to conduct gun backgrounds) for serious mental disorders, including major depression. Since approx. 60% of gun deaths are suicide maybe we can prevent a few of those. The code could be removed on the advice of a Dr.
Many if not most of the mass shootings were, are conducted by persons not of the soundest mind.
3rd. Start a national education initiative on safe gun handling, or a national outreach like our fight against smoking and teen pregnancy.
4th. Have a meeting between common sense lawmakers, cabinet officials and the NRA. to come to an agreement on a standard background that can be used by all 50 states.
5th. Go after the gangs. In the major cities where gun violence is prevalent, like Baltimore, its the gangs committing violence in furtherance of their criminal activities. Now granted, most of those gangs are made up of minorities (except some of the outlaw biker gangs) they are controlling the streets, with guns. You want to know why Baltimore quieted down so quick when the Guard showed up, simple it was putting the gangs out of business just by being there.
6th. Deploy the Guard in Baltimore, Chicago, DC, Milwaukie and of major urban areas. Give them the power of arrest and permission to engage and tell them to clean up the streets.
There’s a start REDJON now what are your fresh ideas?
Your idea of deploying the guard: I wonder why there isn’t probable cause to get warrants in the high risk areas to go house to house looking for unregistered or stolen guns?
Well, I was informed today that another person has stopped killing by my example. The commandment says “Thou shalt not kill.” It does not say “thou shalt not kill human beings.” (I am one of the non Religious people, I just believe in the teachings to a point). Most Religions feel that killing is necessary if attacked. If a mosquito attacks me, it is dead.
A big drive would be “ONLY LOWER ANIMALS KILL” and we are all animals.
I’m really glad you guys are having a discussion about guns and what to do about the problem of gun violence, but I wish it was a little more polite! I was wondering if this post was going to lead to violence!
Message received, and no chance of violence from this blogger. 🙂
It’s just an important subject to me and many others apparently and even more important to the nation. IMO we’ve tried all the same ole things for well ever. To no avail. We, IMO, need a different approach and plenty of dialogue to sort out the best solutions. Not that any politicians would listen.
Patriotsgt, yes, I do think various governments are involved. They are involved by bending to the will of the NRA. They are involved by not providing adequate education. They are involved because of the war on drugs. They are involved because they have not done any statistical analysis of gun use and murder rates, which should be mandatory but has been determined by congress to not be in our best interests, (more NRA meddling here). They are involved by having prisons that house prisoners but don’t try to change them. They are involved because the court system is rigged against the poor. They are involved in so many ways that I can’t list them all here. We need real background checks, we need accountability for gun owners. We need to know what guns are in whose hands. We need to outlaw certain types of guns and ammunition. We need to close the loopholes in gun sales. People who own guns should be licensed, (with expiration of licenses every two or so years unless you are checked and deemed to still be of sound mind) and have to pass training classes for each type of gun they own. I have to get my driver’s license renewed every so often and so should gun owners. And penalties for owning unlicensed guns should be extreme, in both fines and jail time.
PatriotSGT:
“In my state” yes, in your state. Similarly to how you keep referencing violent cities, there are different rules around the country. It’s too easy for strawmen in easy-access states to get weapons and sell them to people in areas where demand is high, like violent cities. We don’t, at the national level, track things like this sufficiently. Nor do we ensure (again, nationally) that those handling weapons have the same level of training and awareness as is apparently the case in your state. Barring state/city border checkpoints that search for weapons and permits, the flow of weapons around the country will remain unchecked until national standards and registries and verification (of ownership, knowledge, and safekeeping) are implemented.
You’re absolutely right that strict gun laws in major cities are not enough, and a massive part of that equation is because of lax gun laws elsewhere and nationally (again, your state vs. everywhere else). I fully support your idea to impose harsher sentences on those convicted of having illegal weapons. I would extend that to include possible charges or serious fines for people who do not report lost, stolen, or sold weapons and ammunition. I would also suggest a law that makes clear that there are no accidents with weapons (i.e. you better make sure your weapon is safe and clear before handing it over and if you have a negligent discharge that hurts or kills someone, you’re in trouble).
To your point about the Lanzas: Mrs. Lanza was shot and killed by her son. Not strangled, not stabbed, not bludgeoned, poisoned, incinerated, asphyxiated, or tickled to death. Shot. She was clearly NOT in control of the firearms in the house prior to being murdered and failing to secure your weapons when you have a mentally unstable relative living with you ought to disqualify you from owning firearms.
How do we do this? Part of it, as you say, is education and disqualification of the mentally unstable. Other parts would be at least a national registry for weapons, a requirement for insurance, a requirement for a safe, a requirement for some verification process that you still own and safely keep previously purchased weapons, a re-certification process similar to renewing your license to include a refresher on safety
To my knowledge, none of that has been tried in concert at a national level, at least not here, so I’m not sure how you arrive at “they’ve failed.” I should also point out, regarding my “convenience” rant, that I wasn’t addressing you personally. You obviously (having read previous posts of yours regarding being in the military) have a far higher degree of familiarity with weapons than the vast majority of firearms owners as well as a more nuanced look at what can be done to combat firearms-related violence. As much as you challenge the proposals that other posters and I have put forward, you clearly want something done. This, in my mind, sets you apart from the strawman-arguers of “if you outlaw guns then only outlaws will have guns” that I was trying to address.
My intent in that diatribe was to point out that a lot of focus is placed on “law abiding gun owners” and how we, for some reason, need to place their right of convenient access (and I would say waiting a few weeks, taking a class, and filing paperwork is convenient when we’re talking about firearms) and ownership above other Americans’ ability to safely attend school, go to work, pray together, sit in their own homes, and walk down the street.
It seems somewhat ironic to me that the country started with very liberal laws concerning carrying guns. In the 1800s it wasn’t uncommon to see people carrying guns in the streets, and there was a lot of violence. It started in large cities in the east, they started restricting guns. It worked, more and more cities and states started restricting where you could have and carry guns. I don’t get why people think it’s going to be different now.
Wildwood and ThatGuy – I agree with a lot of what each of you said. In particular I like having periodical “renewels” of licensing, whether it be 3, 5 or some other number of years. I also believe there should be a penalty for “accidental” discharges. They happen although all are to negligence or carelessness, but even if it causes no harm they needs to be at least ticketed. In the military an accidental discharge, especially in a rear area, will bring much pain to the offender in the form of punishment, pay and maybe career.
In this bitterly divided contest we need to engage both sides or we will not make any progress. It doesn’t benefit the dialogue when one side “tells” the other what they should do. We need to get both sides in a room and close the door and let them stay there until they get a realistic deal.
I agree with some points on both sides of this argument and I don’t think mine is a minority position.
Wildwood – I remembered your comment about the Gov’t not doing enough to rehabilitate prisoners, which you thought might contribute to their return to criminal ways and gun use.
So I thought you’d enjoy this example of “thinking outside of the box”
This is a program that I never would have thought of, but some smart people did. And more importantly it seems to be successful, astonishingly so.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/living/harvard-debate-team-loses-to-prison-inmates-feat/index.html
Unfortunately, at its most raucous, this board is way more reasonable than American national politics. So long as we have an organization out there that commands such lopsided political power and holds the view that any firearms safety measures are anathema to the Constitution, we’ll just continue seeing these mass shootings.
PatriotSgt, I saw that a few days ago. Isn’t it wonderful. I also saw an article about Utah revising their methods for some felonies. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/06/1428422/-Utah-is-reforming-their-criminal-justice-system-and-it-s-amazing
As you can see, I’m not very good at linking. Both are great steps, just as we need to do with guns, it’s just a beginning. I think, (hope), people are beginning to see the wrongness of our system.
As for the debate team, it works wonders to make people feel good about themselves and encourage them to be the best they can be. And this has to feel mind blowingly good for those 300 people that are in the program. Give people opportunity, good or bad, and they will take it. So it’s important that more good opportunity comes for people getting out of prison.