In what some are calling “one of the strangest, most dumb-founding ironies in contemporary American culture“, a new survey shows that White Evangelical Christians as a group reject politicians and policies that reflect the actual teachings of Jesus.
For example, Jesus preached that mercy and forgiveness are cardinal virtues of the Christian faith. And yet Evangelicals are the strongest supporters of the use of torture, the death penalty, and harsh criminal sentencing. Jesus taught non-violence, and yet Evangelicals support the preemptive offensive invasion of other countries. And most ironically, Jesus repeatedly claimed that greed and the pursuit of money was an anathema to God and that in order to follow him you should give your money to the poor, and yet Evangelicals are very supportive of corporate greed and excess. Indeed, most Evangelicals denounce the primary teachings of Jesus as “socialism”.
I find it especially ironic that Jesus explicitly said that people who disparage others and call them names will burn in hell, and yet the Westboro Baptist Church main website is “God Hates Fags”, when the city of Orlando and Disneyworld instituted an annual “Gay Days” event Pat Robertson warned that this would “bring earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor”, and the Mormon Church violated the separation of church and state by pushing for Proposition 8 in California.
So what can you do to turn this around? Ranker has put together a list of the top 20 Bible passages that can be used to fight intolerant fundamentalists. For example, the next time someone claims they are for Christian family values, remind them that according to the Bible, divorce and remarrying are both adultery, that anyone not married who is not a virgin must be stoned to death, and that if your married brother dies, you are commanded to have sex with his widow. If they say something like “Family First” you can remind them that Jesus said “He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”
Not only that, but anyone who curses their parents must be put to death. Given the attitudes of typical teenagers, that would quickly depopulate the country. But that’s fine, since the Bible also says “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” And if you disobey the word of God, then God will punish you by making you eat your babies. Seriously.
As for our response to terrorism, the Bible teaches us to “turn the other cheek” and submit passively to violence against us. And that if someone steals your coat, you should also give them your cloak. I guess that’s why Christians are all calling for the dismantling of our Department of Defense and for fewer prisons.
I know this is old, but I can’t help but think that if Jesus were to come back and run for political office, something like this would be the result:
21 Comments
Isn’t this why there is a separation of church and state?
Iron Knee. I think using Westboro Baptist Church where you do weakens your argument. If you want to suggest that mainstream Evangelicals need to reconsider their beliefs, then your examples should be from mainstream Evangelicals.
I really don’t know anyone who would consider WBC as anything other than a deeply disturbing amalgam of zealotry and scam artists.
I would have to agree with Thought Dancer. I think even the most conservative Christians who consider homosexuality an abomination wouldn’t align themselves with WBC.
That said, the point being made and the video included (brilliant!) are spot on.
Good point. I strengthened that paragraph by adding a few other examples. Of course, there are plenty of other examples (and not just limited to gays).
In concurrance with Sammy and Thought Dancer I would never state Westboro group was a real church. I do agree with the hypocrisy of religious clubs, i mean denominations. They are all man made institutions who have created their own club rules and passed down from generation to generation. I was brought up in one, but have not belonged for over 30 years. I do however believe in spirituality and a god who is greater then us all. I believe he is personal to me, but available to all. I have read the bible Old and New Testaments from cover to cover and try to live by the principles taught there, not the individual passages. They were also man made and subject to the weakness and fallability of man.
That being said, something incredible happened the other day. My wife who was raise Roman Catholic and is a self professed homophobe said to me “I’m starting to think it’s none of the governments business to say who can get married. I think gay people should be allowed to get married, after all I don’t think it was their choice to be gay, they were just born that way like we were born straight.” Now you’ve got to understand that she was vehemently against anything gay for the last 20 years that I’ve known her. She was worried when we sent our sons to a progressive school that embraces diversity, various religions, all races, same sex couples, gay students, etc. She was afraid it would “rub off” on our sons and make them gay. I would patiently tell her that’s absolutely not true, people are born one way or another and don’t choose to be gay or straight god just makes them who they are. Hearing her proclaim that, my sons and I just stared at each other in disbelief.
If my wife can change her mind, anyone can, trust me.
That’s seriously wonderful. Thanks.
I’ve seen several surveys lately that show that in general, people in the US are warming up to the idea of gay marriage. Here’s a good summary: http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/03/05/public-support-for-gay-marriage-on-verge-of-surpassing-oppositio/
I myself used to be more in favor of civil unions for gays, but changed my mind and now support full marriage for them.
It will happen, the only question is when.
Sarge, I really have never heard someone say they went from full on homophobe to realizing what your wife has realized. Very cool story.
PatriotSGT: Kiss your wife for me. I am absolutely amazed.
Since I read about the crusades in history,I’ve been upset about Christians not being Christian. I was thrilled when I learned that the people on crusade got their just desserts by bringing the plague back to England and wiping out one out of three English. To go murder somebody or something certainly wasn’t in the Bible I studied.
I am ashamed to live in the same state as Peter King. I assume his hearings are a diversion while the congress takes from the middle class to give to the Rich.
I’ve been sick since March 2003 on the loss of Iraqi life due to one of those Born Again Christians from Texas, the den of iniquity.
People fail to realize that Obama’s way of leadership is based on the Jesus/Gandhi/MLK teachings. “Oh, he isn’t tough enough.” etc. And he quietly gets his way through passive resistance.
“I really don’t know anyone who would consider WBC as anything other than a deeply disturbing amalgam of zealotry and scam artists.”
And every single one of their claims can be backed up by verses in the Bible.
Just because you don’t like what they say or how they say it doesn’t mean they are not Christians.
(Not that it matters, as the Bible is demonstratively false. Mark 16: 17-18 proves that. As does the story of Job.)
“To go murder somebody or something certainly wasn’t in the Bible I studied.”
Are you kidding me? God commands his followers to kill countless times. The Old Testament is filled with examples of God ordering his people to slaughter other tribes to take their land. Makes sense, as Yahweh is the Canaanite god of war.
And before you claim Jesus change all of that, he said he came to fulfill the prophecy and not change it. And that all of the old laws were still in place. (Including those where you are supposed to stone people who work on the sabbath.)
CSS – all your statements are true, the Old Testament is filled with examples of mayhem. What I am trying to reconcile is the seemingly opposite stance the 10 commandments introduced. Could it be that the Old Testament is more a history as described by men with their interpretations then anything else. If it were not then God would be contradicting himself. Very interesting subject.
Sammy – don’t read more into my wifes “conversion” then is there. Although she now believes gays should have the same rights as everyone else, she’s not likely to start attending the gay straight alliance meetings any time soon. 😉
“What I am trying to reconcile is the seemingly opposite stance the 10 commandments introduced.”
How so? The commandment in question says, “Thou shall not murder…” If God tells you to kill someone, it’s not murder.
I’ll have to remember that defense next time I’m accused of murder. 🙂
It’s just like killing someone in self-defense or the defense of others is not murder. While the exact definition of “Murder” varies from place to place, it is commonly defined as the intentional killing of an innocent person without provocation or legal justification. If God does exist and God sets the rules, then there is no contradiction between “Thou shall not murder” and ‘Go forth and commit genocide against the heathen.’
I believe the commandment goes “Thou shalt not kill”, which has slightly different meaning and allows for some wiggle room. But, your version also allows for some wiggle room concerning war if we then also believe that Presidents and other world leaders are an extension of GOd (like a prophet) or talk direstly to God (now I know what that red phone is really for). 🙂
“It were better to have no opinion of God at all than such a one as is unworthy of him; for the one is only belief – the other contempt.”
– Plutarch
PatriotSGT wrote: “I believe the commandment goes ‘Thou shalt not kill’…”
And you would be wrong. … Or Catholic. The original is “Thou shall not murder” and that’s how it is in the Jewish and the Protestant Bibles, although there are subtle differences between all three versions.
Serious question: Were you ever taught that in Church? Twenty years of being a Christian and it was never mentioned that there were multiple versions of the Ten Commandments.
“But, your version also allows for some wiggle room concerning war if we then also believe that Presidents and other world leaders are an extension of GOd (like a prophet) or talk direstly to God (now I know what that red phone is really for). :)”
This is actually true, except for the Red Phone part.
According to the Bible, all Earthly governments get their authority from God.
Ignorance is not bliss. Zuckerman and Cady are not experts in the Bible or the Jesus of it. They believe in a fabricated Jesus of liberal theology that just happens to be as liberal as they are. Nonsense. Pure and utter nonsense. I spanked both of these guys on my website for their blantant ignorance and logical ineptitude.
I’m sorry Aurthur. I read your diatribe on your website. I was hoping I could post a link to it as an opposing viewpoint. But the majority of your argument is to attack Zuckerman (and Cody). Your major point against Zuckerman is a claim that he is an atheist (which you don’t substantiate), so therefore we shouldn’t believe anything he says. Even your headline is about “Atheistic Ignorance”.
You also argue that he is making unsubstantiated claims about fundamentalists, but his claims are based on real surveys of fundamentalists.
Also, more than half of your actual rebuttals are based on the Old Testament (you claim that Jesus wrote those too, which is an interesting theory).
I totally agree that much good has been done in the name of religion (homeless shelters, food kitchens, etc.) The whole point is the irony of that compared to fundamentalists (in actual surveys) being more supportive of torture (which you fail to mention).
I also thought it was funny that you attempt to refute the point that Jesus was against greediness by quoting Jesus saying “For from within, out of a person’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, eagerness for lustful pleasure, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these vile things come from within; they are what defile you and make you unacceptable to God.” There it is — greed makes you unacceptable to God, in no uncertain terms.
Your input is more than welcome on this website, but you’re going to have to do better with your arguments to get any traction here.