Here’s a good review of the latest legal wrangling.
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18 Comments
This is the reality of America even without the Arizona Law!
…. People read the damn law…. it mirrors the Federal law that has been on the books for decades…. only difference is the 1st 3 paragraphs denounce “racial profiling” by Arizona officers !! Arizona wants to do what the Feds won’t do…. ENFORCE THE LAWS on the books to stop the “INVASION” by “ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS” !!
You want to immigrate “LEGALLY” there is no problem !!
Sorry HermitBiker, you are just wrong. It *requires* officers to check the immigration status of anyone who they suspect, and citizens can sue if they don’t. And by “You want to immigrate “LEGALLY” there is no problem!!” do you mean to say that getting on an impossibly long waiting list to immigrate is no problem?
And besides, if Arizona really wants to stop the “invasion” then all they have to do is start prosecute companies that hire illegal immigrants. Problem solved. All Arizona wants to do is make political hay on the backs of the wetbacks (actually not-so-wetbacks, since Arizona has sucked the Colorado River dry).
Not to mention that according to all statistics coming from the Homeland Security Dept., illegal immigration is DOWN, crime in border states is DOWN, the number of enforcement agents is UP, deportations are UP and funding during this administration is UP. Obama has increased the spending that was already increased under Bush. This is all fake outrage stirred up by a fake news organization (Fox).
Alrighty then, let’s look at this from a fresh set of perspectives. Pretend for a moment there are zero illegal aliens in the US currently. Now, what is wrong with the current immigration system and or enforcement of immigration and how do we want to fix it?
As I see it, there are many people who want to come and only X number of quota spots available as it has been for a long time. So, we have a decision.
A) We open the border, allow any and all who want to come and begin expanding our schools, roads, cutting down the forests, drilling for gasoline and hiring gov’t workers at all levels to accommodate 1 billion people in the next 5 years. or
B) Determine how many and from what countries we want our immigrants coming.
(Of course choice B will leave someone out and their advocate groups will call the ACLU and file suit, etc, etc.)
Now that we’ve determined our policy on immigration, we can address the mechanics of executing that policy. If we cannot seal the border (which we can) then choice B is not worth discussing, because choice A is in place by default. So, can we agree that sealing the border has to be addressed before we can go forward?
Once we determine our policy and how we will implement then we can determine what to do with those that circumvented the legal process. Now we can and possibly should begin that discussion beforehand as is necessary, but it must be understood as secondary to policy and implementation of comprehensive reform.
Comprehensive reform will fix immigration, not the illegal issue. I agree immigration is not optimal. Initial entry into the system is controlled in the foriegn country which lends itself to corruption. People are confusing comprehensive reform with determining the fate of the circumventers, but they are 2 separate issues.
No, I absolutely don’t agree that we have to seal the border. As Sammy mentions, illegal immigration is down. Why? Not because of anything we did to “seal” the border, but because the economy sucks so there are fewer jobs here. Besides, sealing the border would turn us into a police state.
So can we agree that if we stop hiring illegal aliens, then they will stop coming? Seems pretty simple to me.
Also, there are many other options besides your A and B. There is a guest worker program, which many countries use. Like it or not, our country is dependent on cheap foreign labor.
So, step one: implement a reasonable guest worker program. Step two: prosecute companies that hire illegal immigrants instead of legal guest workers. Step three: profit!
Well, guest worker is absolutely an option i’m very much in favor, and I was lumping that into the plan B options. That is, a controlled flow, of immigrants into the the country.
On the sealing, I’d have to say it is a difficult proposition, however having made 2 trips to the border a couple years ago to actually work for several weeks each time on the border we can do a better job. It is getting better, but that is relative.
Here is my concern from a 1st hand perspective of working directly with BP agents.
In 2005 BP agents were contacted by Mex agents accross the border. Coyote’s had contacted them because a person of mid eastern decent was trying to find passage into the US. The coyote’s didn’t want their gig messed up (bad for buss)so they turned the guy over to Mex agents who turned him over to US BP agents.
However, in the last few years the drug cartels have mostly pushed out the coyote’s and are now runnig all the routes into the border. They don’t care and with reliable intel placing organized terror agents within the Mex border area possibly providing training (the remote det car bomb)they can easily have personnel and materiels smuggled into the US.
Now, how to help control the border without recreating N Korea? We must force Mex to assist. We have a huge stick to use in that approx 25% of their economy comes from small money transfers from the US to Mex. Billions each year, maybe as high as 20-25 billion. We can slap an excise tax or threaten to cut off this supply to get them to help on their side. It is ridiculous that they print maps (i have seen) on how to get accross and where and what to do, etc. The Mex Gov’t is aiding them, we must get them to help.
So, if we decriminalized drugs, would that help get things back to the way they were w.r.t. Mexico?
I only have one question in regards to sealing the border, where is the money going to come from to implement “sealing of the border”. To monitor every inch of this fairly long border will cost a constant drain of our resources, and to build a “great wall of china” type of fortification might require a huge sum of fortune and/or cheap labor. If a simple cost verse return is utilized we might consider looking at this from a different perspective. Ether spend big to stop the flood gates of people coming in or spend small and go after the business of hiring illegals and punish those who profit from the cheap labor. While much is made of the laws that are broken when they come into this country, what about the laws that are broken when the someone hires and avades taxation laws for cheap labor sake.
IK I guess you finally did’nt have a good comeback. You sound like a lame RW pundit. LOL
Dave and IK you are both correct. Part of the plan is we must go after the employers as well. Comprehensive = all. We will not win this fight and nothing will get done, again, if we do not do it all.
Seal is a poor choice of words, nothing can be sealed for long. Look at the # of apprehensions reported on the border for fiscal 2009 = 1/2 million. Conservative estimates are that 5 get through for every 1 caught.
How many businesses are there in the US. Who will direct ICE to these businesses, will there be a tip line. Will ordinary citizens “racialy profile” the landscaper accross the street and turn in the business? You want to leave it to congressional oversight, like MMS?
1. Yes, a guest worker program (like Bush proposed)
2. Change the lottery program so any can apply to cut out the corruption in host countries
3. Get a state of the art biometric card
4. up penalties for employers and illegal crossers
5. get Mex to stop incouraging northward migration as a way to boost their economy
6. improve border security, we are 1/3 the way there now.
Personally I think its a great cartoon. Whether we like it or not, profiling is a necessary tool of law enforcement. There is nothing wrong with being on the lookout for a black male, as long as other characteristics or details are provided. Same with Hispanics.
I also know a cheap way to add security to the border. Hire those very same immigrants at minimum wage to build a large wall. Once the wall is built, you string some electric wire along it. Then, parallel to the wall on our side of the border, you lay land mines in random locations within 20ft of the wall. It doesnt have to be a large amount of mines either.
Problem solved. Woot!
Sorry, PatriotSgt, I’m on the road right now, so I’m a little short on witty comebacks. Things should get better in a few weeks after I get back home. Until then, please feel free to take up the slack!
Just a simple question. If you get pulled over you have to shoe your identification…I.e.your papers. So if you are don’t have I’d you are going to be detained. Doesn’t matter what race you are. I think if the federal government were doing the job they were supposed to be doing then the states wouldn’t need a law like Arizonas.
Sorry “Not a Damn Racist”, you’re wrong. Yes, if you are pulled over while driving, you have to show your driver’s license to prove it is legal for you to drive. If you do not have your driver’s license, you are NOT detailed, however. You are issued a ticket, and you can go to the courthouse and show them your license and get the ticket dropped.
But what about if you are not driving? Like you are walking, or sitting on a park bench. Then the constitution says that you are NOT required to have any identification (if you are a citizen). None. I do not have to have my driver’s license with me, or anything else. So who do you think is going to get their id checked?
If you want to eliminate illegal immigrants, just start going after employers who hire illegal immigrants, and the problem will go away.
I would think free market conservatives would be all for open borders that would allow for the person willing to work on the open market for the lowest wages would get the job.
Conservatives have no problem closing up high paying union factories and shipping the jobs to China where laborers work for 1 dollar a day.
So why not open up the US to the same free market style competition. If American citizens won’t toil under the hot sun for whatever the competitive wages are, the job should go to the lowest bidder.
A free market is a market without economic intervention and regulation by government.
Closing our border from foreign worker competition is protectionism plain and simple.
Because the idea of sealing the border will be a constant drain on the economy, and because leaving borders completely open would also drain the economy, option C would be to make stricter laws. If a person thinks they can get away with coming in illegally, they will. If they think they’ll have to provide proof of citizenship to get a job, receive health insurance, welfare, etc. then they’ll tend to try getting in legally instead. If they think we’ll chuck their asses back into their country when discovered, less people will make the futile effort to sneak past.
This is not an issue based on race. The problem is that we made laws in America prohibiting any person from entering our country without being approved in a particular process, in order to monitor population, disease rates, etc. Some people break these laws. It is a problem for people to break laws, and an even bigger problem for the government, being aware of the crime, to grant forgiveness and allow them to continue to exploit their weakness.
Enforcement, I think, is the key here.
this is why i dont have to worry about bringing weed on a plane. seriously. just roll some up, stick them in a pack of smokes, and keep them on you. i have never seen a dog at an airport and i am way to white to be “randomly selected” for a security search.
A truly great article is presented here. It is very interesting.
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