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51 Comments
progress is always bad to knuckle dragging neanderthals.
Ha yeah you can say that again. Stupid planet is taking away their tax cuts.
We can have cleaner energy sources and sustainable businesses and lifestyles AND jobs. Indeed, all of the economic analyses show that there are more jobs in the green infrastructure and related industries than in the current petroleum dependent industries.
Interesting discussion of this going on over on Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/add59/what_if_comic/
To the Climate Summit bullet points they forgot
One World Government
End to Civil Liberties
And Slavery to Corporations
…but hey what if it’s a hoax after all? It’s only the end to the Constitution and the consolidation of power.
I’ll believe my leaders never lie to me and have the people’s best interests in mind when I forget history.
Here’s the real irony.
We used to have dozens upon dozens of problems that were destroying the world. And we still do. But all those problems are cleverly being ignored, because some liar claimed that CO2 is bigger and badder than all of them for his own greed.
And I’ve been arguing this for, what, like 10 years. Where is the evidence? No, not statistical correlation graphs that are easily fudged statistically. I mean the actual science of why.
The world came upon a problem, the simple explanation for greenhouse gases given to you by your 7th grade science class was wrong. Greenhouse gases don’t “trap in heat” like some greenhouse, it’s a misnomer and just a simple explanation for growing minds to grasp at.
Why won’t scientists release exactly how much temperature increase is caused by CO2 instead of saying it all is caused by CO2? Because that is the day global warming will die. And don’t think they can’t, they can, easily.
Now I say global warming will die, but climate change won’t. Maybe, just maybe, we’ll turn around and start helping the planet again facing real issues, or just maybe billions will just be put off in general and we’ll all be screwed.
Or maybe not.
A few years back we faced a similar environmental problem — the use of CFCs in air conditioners and refrigerators that was threatening the ozone layer of our atmosphere. The difference was that back then we actually listened to the scientists. Yes, lots of people moaned and groaned about how it would hurt our economy, and there were the usual dimwits and liars who denied everything, but in the end we banned CFCs and switched to alternatives, and now the ozone layer is (slowly) recovering.
It is sad when people like GMNightmare can spout absolute nonsense, with no references to back up his claims, and not be ashamed of himself. What happened to our country that we stopped caring about science and turned into a bunch of superstitious idiots repeating lies?
Oh yeah, Dubya happened.
Except that seriously.. none of the predictions made by global warming activists have matched up with temperature data in the least. I mean, they have no empirical data to back them up – or if they do have data they rearrange the statistics to push the issue. The fact of the matter is that people cling dearly to these beliefs that all of the opposition’s opinions and stances can be explained away as a fact of being part of “some other group” politically, educationally, etc..
Scaremongering has got to stop, and there are problems (like clean water in the developing world) that can easily be solved without bumbling blindly through incomplete climatological data.
As for CFCs, how could a chemical that’s heavier than air, stable, and produce 90% of the time in the northern hemisphere (If you recall from meteorology class, air from the north and south hemispheres doesn’t mix, people.) get all the way to the SOUTH POLE and float its way to THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE?
Oh, let’s forget about the people in the developing world who would like a refrigerator that has a non-toxic and very cheap refrigerant in it(doesn’t matter, does it? We’ll keep the stuff in our current fridges which is 8 times as expensive and toxic for people to inhale..) Yeah, get rid of all that cheap, safe freeon-12.
Critical thinking is more important than political sides or validity of opinions.
Apparently, not educated enough. Where did you get your “facts”? Fox News?
Ive also had this opinion, i usually tell all disbelievers this, saying i dont care weather its true or not, it will lead to a better future regardless.
@Ryan (post 5)
You should watch “FLOW” the documentary. The world bank and power-hungry corporations ALREADY have control of a lot of environmental shit, and guess what? They’re fucking it up even worse. The people in that documentary DEPLORED the corporations… the ones that ALREADY exist. The one-world government is here through economic power – the world bank can deny loans if you don’t privatize this or that. Have they taken away our freedom yet? No, that’d be impractical. Are they making mad amounts of money? Yes. Have they made us slaves to corporations? Psh, that’s been going on for AGES before this climate debate.
You’re fucking stupid if you think ACTUAL reform could hurt.
to the people saying that its all CO2 that is causing climate change, that is wrong, its a multitude of chemicals and gases. each one having a different effect on our atmosphere and biosphere. CFC’s do infact effect ozone. this is due to the chemical reactions between these 2 compounds.
its quite easy to see climate change. i live in australia and its bloody obvious to me that in the next 3 or 4 decades this country might come damn close to be inhospitable.
the enhanced greenhouse effect is only part of the problem of climate change. there are heaps of different issues. you cant just look at one part on its own and say the whole thing is a lie, you have to look at the whole problem.
I don’t understand it therefore it can’t be happening.
why do you people do this??? now people will really think that its a hoax, don’t give any bad ideas!
I feel like we have reached a point in world history where nothing will ever get done. Because everyone is online 10+ hours a day, everyone thinks they are an “expert” on everything. Whenever politicians or world leaders try to help reduce pollution, or give poor people access to health care, or any other measure aiming to improve the greater good, people just throw around random statistics, insist that it is a vast socialist, communist, fascist, new world order, “liberal agenda” (whatever that means)that will ruin the country or the entire world! Come on people, if it means a slight tax increase to get the US off foreign oil and onto greener energy, or provide health care for all Americans, or anything that will help people less fortunate than me, I would gladly pay it and be willing to pay even more! We are going to waste so much time bitching about every little thing and nothing will ever get done… ever.. for the rest of human existence…..
The Earth is more stable than society and the idea that society is destroying the planet is delusional,… pure capitalism is bad, cyclical consumption and the profit motive it’s self are eating up a lot of resources, but what the fat man al gore and and his corporate friends are promoting is global fascism in cap and trade. carbon is in you’re blood, the air you breathe, gore promotes that every child be born with a debt of 3K, a debt to him and his corporate and banking friends, sunspot activity is responsible for recent warming across the solar system, and VOLCANOES emit 99.99999999 percent of all carbon dioxide and always will. there’s no possible way our factories and our cars are throwing off this balance. Our “carbon levels” are determined only by volcanic activity always have been and always will be.
Hi James! Volcanoes emit 200 million tonnes CO2/year; humans 26.8 BILLION. That means volcanoes emit < 1%. (http://cdiac.ornl.gov/)
St Louis James, nobody is suggesting that society is destroying the planet. The problem is that we are destroying ourselves. The planet will survive just fine, even with major cities like New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and London underwater.
The trade-off is not the planet versus capitalism. The problem is that if we don’t do something about climate change, it will cause economic disruptions more severe than what would be required to prevent such a catastrophe.
I just had to delete some comments, for the first time in months. I welcome all opinions, but please, can we keep the dialog constructive in here? No name calling, or personal attacks please.
There are some outrageous falsehood floating around here.
Human activities release more than 100 times the carbon dioxide volcanoes do. If volcanoes truly were the primary source of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, we would see wild spike in carbon dioxide concentrations every time a volcano erupted, but we don’t see that in ambient measurements. Instead, we see a very smooth increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations.
Earth atmosphere is mostly nitrogen and oxygen. Molecular oxygen is heavier than molecular nitrogen, but our atmosphere isn’t a layer of pure oxygen with a layer of pure nitrogen on top of it. Earth’s troposphere is well-mixing due to turbulent processes, meaning CFCs do make it to the top of the troposphere and into the stratosphere, where they are broken up by UV radiation, releasing halogen radical that wreak havoc on stratospheric ozone. CFCs also have strong absorption peaks in the infrared, meaning molecule-for-molecule, they’re also a potent greenhouse gas.
Carbon dioxide traps outgoing longwave radiation. This is indisputable. You can go into a lab and measure carbon dioxide absorption peaks at 2.7, 4.3, and 15 microns. The analogy to a greenhouse is imperfect because the trapping mechanism is different (radiation as opposed to convection), but to so carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases don’t warm the planet is a violation of our basic understanding of physics.
I love this, irony at it’s most profound.
If you don’t believe that it’s good to cut down on pollution, then just go park your car in a garage, close the garage door, start your engine, and sit in your car for a while.
Humans should just be forced to make the energy themselves. We could start human mills or human farms. Ahahaha Gorlax approves.
I’m all for changing the way we humans operate in our daily lives, however if you want o subject me to an international tax scheme created to line the pockets of jackholes like Al Gore, as well as subject me to laws created by the U.N. you can kiss my ass I’m protected by that thing called a constitution… oh and can we all at least agree that the Sun is the main driver of climate change… or are me humans causing the polar caps on Mars to melt as well?
its hot here, therefore global warming, therefore bush=bad, therefore all republicans are evil….what ever anyone says in this little forum will make no difference to anyone of any importance..so why dont you all take your ideas and theories and/or facts and try to use them in a positive light.. try to make a difference..do something besides bitch on the internet..
thank you soldier in iraq, you made a very good point, too much talk and not enough action, bitching on the internet is exaggerated gossip, it does not make a difference on how many times you post, who you disagree with. i personally have come to the consensus that much of civilization encourages a toxic, wasteful and greedy lifestyle. i do not waste my time arguing. you can’t expect to have your problems solved for you. if you don’t do anything, how do you expect others to do the work for you? basically in life, you get out what you put in.
I have no problem with recycling and putting forth effort into creating a healthier earth, but the fact that it has turned into a politically motivated corporation is a shame. I don’t think the leaders like Al Gore that are heading these programs have their head or heart in the right place. As for jobs, cap and trade will destroy the already pathetic job market. It is so simple. Big corporations need money to hire workers. Taking their money will create tons of jobs, unfortunately none in America. In fact it will do the exact opposite. Don’t support this junk because it makes you feel like you’re making a difference. Work towards a better Earth on your own not through corporations and corrupt politicians.
@Nemo (post 24)
Quit telling people about my international tax scheme, in which a bill containing a clause that an allotted amount of tax revenue goes to me is passed by congress and ratified. It was foolproof until you shared it on politicalirony.com!
dont you people understand? they dont care about a one world government. thats what they want. one world. together. with love. too bad love will be the last thing happening when there is a monopoly on the world. the fact they are following al gore shows they do not think clearly. WE ALL HATE EVIL CORPORATIONS BUT YOUR ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY THEM AND YOU CANT EVEN SEE IT. I hope these traitors meet with justice soon. always ask yourself. WHO BENEFITS? FOLLOW THE MONEY AND YOU WILL GET ANSWERS.
It’s about making humans a problem. Carbon is not a problem, it’s a fundamental building block of life.
It’s about population control/ reduction.
Do a little bit of home work, and all of this will become more clear.
Here’s a helping hand.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6736722752013377089&ei=bkgAS42WHofslQfKmqj1CQ&q=kymatica&hl=en&view=2#
How dare you people say that global warming is still going on.
Go do some of your own research.
There has not been warming for 10 years while CO2 emissions have steadily risen.
Actually 2009 has been a year of cooling.
Just read this article and look at these graphs.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTlhOTNiOWFlMmMzNmJkOWM3ZTk5NWJkNTU2Nzk5NWI=&w=MQ==
By The Way, while Obama is over in Copenhagen pledging Billions of American Dollars(that we do not have seeing as we are 13 TRILLION in debt!!!)
there was record snowfall in Washington D.C. and in Copenhagen
Global Warming is just a giant scam for people to make money, CO2, made by humans, has such an insignificant effect on the atmosphere that it could be completely ignored.
The warming and cooling comes from things like Solar Flares, and Sun Activity, and El Nino……..
You guys are ridiculous to spout this propaganda.
what if we all stop patting each other on the backs and painting the opposition as criminals and idiots and for a rational mix of ideas from both sides. Why do we keep listening to the IPCC blindly, thats fueled by governments who do have agendas. Environmentalism is the new socialism, third world countries take on the cause to force the first world to slow down and invest money in them. Since when in history was the climate stable? Check the Vostock Ice cores and we have CO2 and Temp data following massive changes over huge periods, so why are we so concerned over the data of only 100 year. Correlation does not imply causation, just because there is a warmth and there is an increase in gases does NOT mean that is the only factor. The heat island effect for starters is a major factor, increase in population and development lead to a decreased albedo, ergo we retain more energy from the sun. We’ve had CO2 levels above 300 ppm for almost 100 years, wheres the destruction? Flordia once was almost completely covered with water at 280 ppm CO2, proof that correlation does not imply causation. Global warming is only 70% man made, but what is to say that it is a bad thing. No polar bears wont die, the species has survived through past interglacial periods. There is currently vast tracks of land in Canada that are unable to support humans, so if we do increase in temperature, we are opening up more land than that would be potentially lost.
Not saying that there is nothing to global warming, but comics such as this make you the idiot as you have no defense except contempt for your enemy. It is a synthesis of ideas that demonstrates true knowledge
I find it completely amazing that people are spewing out so much misinformation about climate change. Who isn’t for reducing our dependence on foreign oil, or on reducing air and water pollution? It is almost as if someone or some powerful organization who is making tons of money off of oil is bankrolling the protests. Ya think?
As always, follow the money.
global warming, the biggest corporate/government hoax in history!
Sigh.
So if “progress” won’t do such irreparable damage to society, why hasn’t a single country world wide stepped up to take a hit for the team? Where are these “green” jobs? Where is this “green” technology? I’m all for resolving the global warming issue, but at least I have the common decency to admit the lives of hundreds of thousands of people will be destroyed in the process.
God, stop thinking like Yanks. Money, money, money… is that all you care about?
There are a few things I know about climate science.
Right now the Earth is in a period of natural occurring global warming. The sun is at it’s minimum in solar activity right now and CO2 does indeed create a increase in Earths global energy by trapping in rays and converting them into molecular vibrations\rotations.
So sure right now we are in a period of time where there is naturally occuring global wamring, but we are also at the lowest sun activity (which keeps the planet “cool” for now) and it’s only going to go up (in a cycle of course of 11 years). Also CO2 has an effect. Sure Al Gore is a bit too extreme and there is a errors on both sides of the argument; however, there can be reasonable compromises and actions taken on both sides to diminish disputes and economic slow down caused by not investing in inefficient global warming solutions (as a conversative would think corporate money scandal) and the cost towards regions affected by the modifications it will bring to the world climate.
It’s true that on the solution side there are bad ideas to racket in money but on the other hand there are also miss-information which doesn’t help finding the good ones.
As for countries taking one for the team. The EU is taking one with it’s commitment of 20% or 30% carbon cuts from 1990 levels. However since the aren’t the biggest emitters they have less impact. The US could try and take some economic initiative by creating technology and making profit on rights of the technology from China or something, but then again China might arguably copy it. And the US could set up shops to make wind\solar technology in Africa. It doesn’t reall help the job market, but it does help your economy.
There is a way to make it viable, but it’s rarely the way politicians claim it to be. We should approach global warming as real and do cost benifits on a economic perspective and not on a interest point of view (corn fields for ethenol is an exemple). I think that would be a reasonable stance.
I object to the term of global warming and prefer climate change, this indicates more to me that there’s a fighting chance to at least save a few species.
Our CO2 levels haven´t been as high as in the last half million of years. The highest point about 125,000 years ago was even more than the half less off our current CO2 levels. Back then there were dramatic changes but due to gradual rise, the effects were gradual. They aren´t at the moment, we´ve spiked.
The problem with science is that you have to have the objectivity and the proper ways of observations to conduct empirical survey.
Since we´re only humans and conduct science for only 7000 years, we do not know enough to conduct this all scientifically with sufficient data over longer periods, still geology fills quite a few blank spots and please look at the rise of disappearing of glaciers.
About global government, this is all I have to say:
What makes you think ‘fighting terrorism’ didn’t already forfilled your deepest fears? They don’t need global warming for that.
If Man Made Global Warming(MMGW) was really the issue, then China, Russia and India would have to make the greatest ammount of changes. But they are not being asked to…… Europe, Japan and America and only they are!
MMGW is a socialist hoax to redistribute wealth to from civilized hard working rich countries to corrupt filthly poor countries. Oh and the establishment of a world government.
America itself is cleaner today than it has been since the late 1930s and gets cleaner yet everyday. Los Angeles used to have smog alets every other day, now they are a rare occurence. The Mississippi used to be a cess pool in Minnesota were I grew up, now you can swim in it and eat the fish out of it. Mountain Lions and Timber Wolves are now found in the suburbs of the Twin Cities. America doesn’t need to hobble its economy for the sake of a myth! We are already doing more than enough to clean our land, what are you doing to clean yours?
Even the CO2 levels stated are neglegable, Increased from 320 PPM in 1960 to 385 PPM in 2008. An increase of 65 parts per 1,000,000? That is 0.0065%. It is nonsense to believe the Earth is that fragile!
No the Kool Aid drinkers/Communists/Obama-ites are fools of enormous porportions, America doesn’t need to do a damn thing we are not already doing.
BTW It cannot be an accident that a delusional communist moron like Noam Chomsky is quoted at the bottom of this page!
Steve, so the fact that the laws passed and measures taken to solve those earlier environmental disasters didn’t “hobble our economy” means we shouldn’t do anything now? Come again?
And by the way, your math skills suck. 320 ppM to 385ppM is a 20% increase, not 0.0065% And if you look at the graph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide-en.svg) the rate at which it is rising is increasing.
The data was altered to get the results the global warming clique wanted and they tried to force differing viewpoints out of scientific journals. That’s dangerous to scientific advancement. Science is supposed to be about legitimate research, not dogma.
This isn’t really that good of a joke, the corporations want to make money and ignore anything but short term profits.
For those that say global warming and vast pollution/destruction of our planet and ecosystems are a HOAX?
Look deeply into your childrens eyes, or your grandchildrens eyes… Now turn and look in the mirror and see the $$$$$ and GREED in YOUR eyes!!!! SHAME ON YOU. YOU ARE THE REAL PROBLEM.
VERY original and thought inspiring. Up until now, every climate related argument has basically been a repetition of the same beliefs and opinions, but this brings a totally new though to the discussion.
I am not going to get into the the argument. I will just say I enjoyed the comic.
I hear bitching and propaganda on both sides. Stop listing to what other people tell you and go to college, read a book, stop watching Fox News, something that educates you.
the world today has become very detached from the physical world, with techniques of production and distribution that have no relationship to the environment. Our use of a profit based, “growth” driven monetary system has become one of the greatest destroyers of the natural world and sustainable human values. Even with our current, destructive methods, the Earth is still abundant with resources. Today our practice of rationing resources through monetary methods is irrelevant and counter-productive to the well-being of people. Today’s society has access to highly advanced technologies and can easily provide more than enough for a very high standard of living for all the earth’s people…..why is this not happening. our world is currently run, undeniably, by a small group of dominant men in high positions of those institutions which are most dominant in society- Business and Finance. you think they are just gonna step down. Once technology started to get better they had to be looking around like “shit one man can be in charge of 1600 acres of land so shouldnt the price go down now?” of course not money is still what this planet is all about….
please look into the zeitgeist movement where a majority of what I said came from goodbye
So I bought a stainless steel water bottle for nothing? Fuck.
Yes, and all the better world people get rich trading carbon credits while the rest of us, the masses, shiver in our huts and try to find those green jobs so we can have something to eat. No thanks. Climate change IS a hoax, the Copenhagen & CO2 reduction part of it, anyway, and the so-called better world is only in the eyes of the good comrades running it.
to every one who says that all this is wrong and that it is a hoax or that scientist make this up:
You have to realize that yes climates are changing, is it entirely our fault? No, but we are having a significant impact in speeding up the process and its not just CO2. Other gases like water vapor (yes H20), methane, ozone (yes natural ozone) and others all cause the planet to heat. The thing here, and this is the important part, is that the levels of CO2 since the industrial revolution and burning of fossil fuels have increased faster than any other time in history (proven through scientific measurements in ice and tree rings) and the level of CO2 causes significant heating. Levels of pollution (global dimming) is somewhat counteracting this but none the less they are both being assisted by humans. Not only will creating renewable resources and energy help climate, it will help the planet as well. Deforestation, oil spills and invasive extraction of natural resources, over fishing, harvesting of resources and pollution can all be solved (or decreased) by creating more environmentally friendly techniques. And all this will benefit us as well. So before you go and nay say just because “this is stuff for democrats or hippies” how bout you stop and actually listen to facts and use common sense to connect the dots. Don’t disagree with something just because you want to stay true to your party lines
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